Issues with health and local authorities.

What is and what is not allowed? The folks in here will sort it out.
Case Law seems to be the evil wicked witch of the west at the moment.

Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby Ian Pedlar » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:07 pm

I hope others will chime in here but I think there are two distinct phases

1) get a pedlars certificate

2) see what happens when you trade with it
giffgaff seem to be paying 'me' for using 'them' at the moment! Can't get much cheaper than that!
See my website for details
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby markd » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:10 pm

If you want to take this further I will provide you with stock, sign-age etc to get you started, but the offer is conditional on a further detailed talk about your particular circumstances.
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby wokey » Mon May 18, 2015 8:59 am

Hi guys, thanks for the replies, I haven't given up hope yet, currently going through tons of housing issues, but hopefully will be sorted soon.

The police force have said my health shouldn't effect the law, and it clearly says standing, but they keep refusing to put it down in writing, and just phone me to say the same thing, if i ask for it to be emailed or posted they say they will and never do, if i chase it up 'nobody is available'

On health side though i saw a geneticist after much waiting, and have 8 new specialists so hopefully my health will start to improve.

I'm happy to talk to any of you in more detail privately, any advice or help is welcome.

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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby Seymour » Tue May 19, 2015 1:13 am

There are two clear points here, aren't there? First of all there's getting your hands on that certificate. Secondly there's doing the peddling.

Firstly: As regards the police: they cannot refuse to issue you with a certificate unless you've been a very naughty boy at some time. I wonder if you have a local CAB that might be able to assist you draft a letter or (and I really don't know if this is possible) find a solicitor who does pro bono work (professional work undertaken voluntarily and without payment or at a reduced fee as a public service) to help.

It might be worth your while to call a few solicitors and ask if anyone does pro bono work. They might just agree as it's only a small job that any lawyer could do in 10 minutes or so.

Secondly: As regards mobility and your own comfort/safety, have you considered one of these rollators or something similar?

You sometimes see them in charity shops for not much money.

It could easily be adapted to carry your goods and a sign to say who you are and what you selling.

According to case law:

* 1996-wrexham-v-roberts - it is not necessary to be in perpetual motion when plying your trade, so you CAN stop for short periods. What you cannot do is set up a temporary stall and trade from that.

* 1994-shepway-v-vincent - you are permitted a small (= pedestrian-sized) trolley.

Not even the the worst Council jobsworth could complain about that if you clearly have limited physical capacities ... and I cannot imagine that any magistrate would refuse to see this as ((travel and trade on foot)).
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby Izalias » Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:38 pm

There are two parts of an Act of Parliament.

The Literal Form and the Spirit Form.

The Literal Form of the Pedlar's Act states, travels and trades on foot.

We know from the case law that the Pedlar's act can be taken as 'not so narrowly prescribed' (Wrexham v Roberts, 1996) so there is a bit of wiggle room when it comes to the Act.

The other form is the Spirit Form (no I don't mean ghosts). The spirit of an act is all about what the act intends. The spirit of the pedlars act is to differentiate two forms of trading and create an exemption from a subscription to local government. It tends to be the case that as long as a pedlar doesn't loiter for too long in one place and makes sure to go to their customers as opposed to the other way around, then it is clear that the pedlar may be seen to be peddling.

Remember, pedling is not street trading and it is possibly a fraud for the council to describe the rights of a pedlar in a deceptive manner, especially if they are trying to affect a gain for themselves in the form of selling a licence.


So you want to carry a stool, in case you get tired, I would be reticent to do so, as it not only could easily be argued that you are setting up a static pitch by placing a chair but also, you would have to carry a stool, all day.

It would be far more advantageous to use a wheelchair if you are feeling off.

A court would be hard pressed to come to a discriminatory judgement against the use of a mobility aid, especially in the light of physical disability and the employment acts. Disability is a protected characteristic and the Pedlar's act is old law, which has not been updated for a long time, other than by force of case law.

In terms of the literal act, if you aren't on foot, you are in breach, so expect councils in their ignoble way to pounce on this.

Judges, however, tend towards the spirit of an act, which implies that one must be on the move and may take disability into account when deciding whether or not to prosecute.

In short, it is a bit of a minefield you will be... wheeling into.
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby wokey » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:28 am

my issue is the local police and council both know me, i have stood against the council for a disabled gent that they tried to evict, as a layman, and won, they really dislike me, and want to make things difficult, including currently trying to mess with my housing, potentially leaving me homeless in a few months, the police also know me because I've helped people with bailiffs and made sure I've been at protests with police around including putting some officers in line on the use of a megaphone.
I guess my concern is going into this and spending time effort and money on it, I'd leave the ESA support group, which is basically my safety blanket, and they could shut me down on day 1, for it all to be argued through court, which I'm happy to do, except trying to survive on no money until the court date arrives.

So its weighing up the risk/reward, because I'm pretty sure they will want to make things difficult.
The advise and support here has been great, i cannot thank you all enough.
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby Izalias » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:45 am

Yeah, the council is a bit of a shit like that, however, the police do not have the power to revoke a pedlar's certificate.

Regina (Jones) -v- Chief Constable of the Cheshire Constabulary
  • The police only have the power to refuse to issue one (which can be appealed).
  • A magistrates has the power to revoke a certificate.
  • The police do not have the power of revocation.

If they revoke it, keep a list of your damages and make sure to demand them from the court.
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby Seymour » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:14 pm

There are two points here:

1 - It's got nothing to do with your local Council.

2 - The police are obliged to issue you with a certificate as long as you fulfil the criteria.

And it doesn't matter whether or not you are "known" to the police or the Council or whether they like you are not. They must obey the law just like the rest of us.
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby wokey » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:50 pm

Hi again, I'm going to push for them to put everything in writing, and see what they say on an official basis, thats been an issue previously, i think once i have that i can either start making complaints or go for it.
I'll post back with any updates, again thank you all for the help and advice
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby Tony Maloney » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:45 pm

Please anyone reading this , read up on Equalities and Human Rights Commission
Tony Maloney
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