Issues with health and local authorities.

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Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby wokey » Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:14 pm

I have a few issues that i hope somebody on here, with more knowledge than i have, can help me.
Issue 1) I asked at my local police station about getting a peddlars license, after showing them the act that says i can stay on the high street (they insisted it was only door to door) they asked for £13.50 for the application to be accepted, i pointed out that it was not the correct amount as listed in the act, and they have said that i need to pay £13.50 or not apply.

Issue 2) (some background for context) I have a condition called Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, it makes me untouchable in the world of work, one of the main things is frequent random dislocations of any joints, it is incredibly painful and puts me at risk for everything, in the summer i trapped my finger it dislocated from the middle, it still has not fully recovered, i randomly enjoy my hip deciding to relocate away from my pelvis. as well as have a perforated disk in my lower back and most of my other disks bulging. to top it all off i have a resistance to pain killers that seems to have developed since i had some kidney damage (it's called that, in reality it wasn't too bad) so i have no pain relief.
This basically means i cannot stand or sit for long periods of time, talking maybe 20 minutes or so with each, sometimes more sometimes less. so I asked if for health reasons i would be allowed to take a seat and sit down as i felt needed, i was told i was not allowed, and that i couldn't even sit down and refuse sales, unless i completely removed from site what it was i had for sale, making it very difficult, because on bad days I'll be up and down like a yo-yo having to close up every 5 minutes just wouldn't work. Does anybody know if there is a way round this, i could push anti-discrimination, but, i don't want the peddlars act to be changed from the gem that it is.

Issues 3) the Local council (Lincoln City Council) have a covenant in place to stop any food or drink being sold on the high street, I asked about this and asked to see a copy of the bye-law, almost a year later, i still haven't received one. What action can i take to see it, or can i presume it doesn't actually exist?

Thank you for any advise, assistance or guidance in advance

Leon
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby wokey » Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:30 pm

They've now changed their minds again, and are back to saying that it is only for door to door sales, and if i want to sell in the high street then i need a street traders thing from the council.
Asked for them to put everything in writing, so just waiting for an email to come through from them
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby Ian Pedlar » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:11 pm

Eh? What?

oh sorry, we've all hibernated.

Me for example am sitting in my little warm cave.

I'm sure you've searched around on this forum to get lots of juicy info.. look at this:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/all?title=pedlars

and this: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1985 ... tents/made

It's £12.25 unless the local bobbies are on the take.

Always look for the 'print pdf' option on that site as it is nice and clear.

You'll need to do a search on that site for Lincoln, see if they've snuck any extra conditions for pedlars in like they have in London, Bournemouth and Manchester.

if not, print it all out, learn it by heart and attack them again :)

Good luck!

.... now... where did I leave that bone .....
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby torpedovapour » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:53 pm

if they say you can't sell food , that is what you must do, and if you have such an ailment than you can't peddle
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby Liquid » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:56 am

Yes it is hard for the disabled that all of a sudden are be told there cured over night and need to work you may be more abled to work from your pc maybe? I myself am disabled but I dare say I could nock up a wood cart out of basic junk and have her looking ship shape
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby markd » Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:40 pm

I would pursue this, the Pedlars Act, when originally constructed, was designed to protect ambulant traders, ie mobile traders who traded on foot, as opposed to larger scale traders who used animals to carry or pull their goods, (they had too much stock to carry or push it about) the Hawkers Act was created for traders who used small push carts etc to carry and display their wares, the Hawkers Act is no more and most of it has been merged with the Pedlars Act.

The basis of the Pedlars Act is that it gives lawful authority to itinerant traders, it means that you are free to go about your lawful business without hindrance. To benefit from the protection in law a Pedlars Certificate gives you, you have to meet certain criteria.

The original Act was formed in 1871 (amended 1881) so it is a fairly old piece of legislation, case law (mainly Appeal Court Cases) have clarified and updated its meaning.
With each appeal court ruling the lawful meaning of the original act is applied to more modern day legal concerns. What does all this have to do with your particular circumstances? Well back in 1881 if someone suffered from your particular condition they most probably wouldnt have been able to work in any capacity, someone suggested you work at home with your PC, would this have been an option in 1871? Of course not, but it is an option for you in todays modern world. For someone to trade as a Pedlar in 1871 they would have had to have been physically fit, there was no alternative.

Today things are a lot different, people, who in the past would have been excluded from many parts of society ( including the right to work) through the misfortune of physical impairment or illness, are now given the same rights as other members of society.

The Human Rights Act gives fundamental rights to everyone. One of these rights is the right to choose the manner in which you decide to earn your living,YOU CANNOT BE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BASED ON THE LAWFUL WAY IN WHICH YOU CHOOSE TO EARN YOUR LIVING (acting as a pedlar is a lawful trade). Britain as a member State of the European Union is bound by the principles contained within the Act. This means that a court of law or the government in this country MUST consider the principles contained within the Human Rights Act when it passes laws or makes judgements in our Law courts.

So with those principles in mind, if you didnt have a physical impairment you could choose to become a trader trading under the lawful protection of the Pedlars Act. Because you have physical impairment the original act says you cant be a pedlar because you are unable to travel as you trade, back in 1871 there was no practical alternative. The principles contained in the original Pedlars Act still remain today, however there are options available to physically impaired people today that were not available back then. Modern technology means that physically impaired people are now as mobile as "able bodied" people.

If you could act as a pedlar with a modern aid, such as a powered wheelchair, I think there is no distinction between you and an able bodied pedlar, apart from the fact that you use a powered wheelchair to comply with the principles of the original law. In the original act a "beast of burden" is used to distinguish the difference in scale of the trader ( ie too much stock to carry or push about) In your case a powered wheelchair doesnt replace the "beast of burden" the powered wheelchair doesnt mean you have a facility to operate at a greater scale, it merely provides a means for you to become an ambulant trader.

The above is only my reasoning, based on my understanding of the pedlars act, but if you would like to take this further then PM me.
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby markd » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:57 pm

The above reply deals with the very important issue of your point 2.

Point 1
The cost of a certificate is £12.25, they want another £1, I wouldnt worry about the £1, I would pay the fee and get my certificate, you could appeal at your local magistrates court about the fee, do you want to use up hours of your life to save a £1??

Point 3
From memory, A bye law must be approved by central government to be enforceable. Breach of a byelaw is a criminal act. If there is such a byelaw it will be part of a Bill which has been approved by government and given Royal assent, Ask your council which act this bye law is contained within, they dont seem to be able to do this from what you have said. Contact the councils legal department, and add a note giving them a time scale to provide the information( a reasonable amount of time, 14 days perhaps) I would also add to my enquiry that failure to provide this information within the requested time scale will mean that you will assume that in fact no such byelaw exists. Keep a copy of the letter/email etc. It is proof, if you should need it, that you took reasonable care in establishing your lawful entitlement.
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby wokey » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:10 pm

Thanks for the Replies. I will read through them and heed any advise, I'm not bothered by the extra £1, but it bugs me that they are supposed to enforce the law, not to change it to make money, however little that amount is.

I've been placed in the support group, i have not got to attend appointments, but I'm 23 and have always done stuff for local businesses or for myself since i was 17 (i worked for tesco as a cleaner) and don't want to be 'written off' as a scrounger or lost cause, the condition is sporadic so some days I am OK other days not so much, i tried asking the DWP, Ingeus, and the Princes trust for help, but none could help with how my health is.
I started a local 'free hugs' movement a few years ago, when my health was better, and loved being out and about, talking to and meeting people, plus I'm a natural salesman, so being a pedlar is a great chance for me to still do something.

I will edit this with any replies. but thank you all for your time :)
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby Ian Pedlar » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:28 am

I think Pedlary would really help you, get out there, meet lots of lovely people.

I really hope you figure it out and please keep us posted.

I, and I'm sure everyone else who reads these posts, wish you the very best of luck.
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Re: Issues with health and local authorities.

Postby wokey » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:26 am

Thank you, I'm a bit stuck at the moment about how to move forward with this, they say i cannot do it unless i walk around all day, which isn't possible. really not sure how to get this so it is possible, without making a complaint and taking legal action, with the fight to keep the act, I do not want to be the excuse that lets them scrap it.
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