Restricted Areas

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Restricted Areas

Postby lbnuk » Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:31 pm

Hi All,

Many thanks for letting me join your pedlar forum. I have received my certificate but still a peddling virgin at present. Does anyone know the implications of peddling in a restricted area, by that I mean land that is private. In Lincoln where I am from there are some areas that are for the public but not sure if they are privately owned or classed as highway. Would it just be a case of being asked to leave or would it be an offence opening me up for prosecution / legal action ?

Many thanks for your time
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Re: Restricted Areas

Postby markwoods39 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:21 am

We traded on a car boot that was on private land the land owner did call the police on us !! they came and went once shown our pedlar certificate and we carried on trading.
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Re: Restricted Areas

Postby MagicPedlar » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:34 pm

Hi lbnuk!

Welcome to the forum, best of luck in your pedalling endeavours.

My understanding of the law around being on private land is the following. Bear in mind, different people have different understandings (and misunderstandings) of the law and you may not be treated as you should be.

If you are peddling on private land, the owner has the right to ask you to leave.

At that point, you are considered to be trespassing. However, don't panic, trespass itself is NOT a criminal offence, it is a civil dispute. (I.e. You have a disagreement with another member of the public). Whilst anyone CAN call the police to assist in a matter as they are public servants, they don't actually have any power to actively do anything with civil disputes (i.e. they couldn't lawfully arrest you, physically remove you, etc).

A good starting point is asking the land owner (or their agent / representative if it's a security guard / manager) to prove to you that the land is private. If they are asking you to leave based on that claim, then they should be able to prove it or else what is to stop anyone just walking around telling others 'this is mine, go away'. IMHO, that's a reasonable request and if you remain calm and polite and assert your position, then they can't accuse you of harassing them or anything. They may well call the police, but remain calm.

individuals are human beings - they behave differently, they make mistakes or (in some cases) they like to push others around. So whilst a police officer SHOULDNT arrest you for trespass, that's not to say they won't try. Or even, not arrest you, but try to intimidate you or push you around. My best advice in these situations is remain calm and polite yourself (ie don't give them any ammunition to arrest you for) and simply ask them to specify what criminal law they believe you are breaking, if this is a civil matter, and if so, why are they actively involving themselves in a civil dispute.

DONT jump straight in with that though... many coppers are decent if you treat them with respect. Most of the time they are just trying to resolve arguements and keep the peace, so it's important you keep them onside.

HOWEVER (and this is really important), if you are asked to leave and you refuse, this escalates the offence to 'Aggravated Trespass' which IS a criminal offence. Thus if you actually said 'I'm not leaving', a copper COULD arrest you (however, many will try to avoid the hassle and the paperwork and try to talk you around... especially if you remain calm and polite.) That's why I'd suggest you stick to this angle 'I understand your claim that this is private land, however I do not take it at face value. Please provide me with evidence to support your claim of land ownership. If you do, I will happily leave, if not I wish to continue to assert my rights to trade on what I consider to be public property.'

All of this is worth considering something though - whilst you CAN assert your rights and challenge security guards and police etc... is it necessarily the best use of your time? I.e. You are a pedlar, you are going out to trade in the streets to earn money. No customers are going to come anywhere near you if a copper and a security guard are stood with you so maybe the best thing is to move on when challenged and go to an obviously public street?

The other thing I'd consider is do you really want a reputation amongst the local authorities for being awkward? I find that sometimes that is asking for trouble.

Your choice, anyway. Personally, I'd probably try and see what happens. You can always play dumb and leave if requested, if you don't want to challenge.

Best of luck anyway!

Phil
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Re: Restricted Areas

Postby lbnuk » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:15 pm

@markwoods39 - How'd you get away with that? - was the boot sale held on council property that is free for people to walk round like a car park?

@MagicPedlar - Couldn't agree more nothing is to be gained from an argument or rubbing authorities up the wrong way, my concern was if the police were called,if I would be prosecuted or my certificate revoked.

Many thanks for the quick and in depth reply.
lbnuk
 
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Re: Restricted Areas

Postby markwoods39 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:54 pm

[quote="lbnuk"]@markwoods39 - How'd you get away with that? - was the boot sale held on council property that is free for people to walk round like a car park?

Hi, no it was a private field run by a sport center, it was free for anyone who attended the car boot as a buyer ! The chap who was running the car boot sale got the right hump with us :p even more the police did nothing to move us off his site. Just be polite to any persons who comes up to you with a smile and say i am trading within the law here is my certificate for you to see :)
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Re: Restricted Areas | Offer £10 To Private Land Owners !

Postby Cardiff » Tue May 02, 2017 11:19 pm

Hello Pedlars !


Sorry to Hear About your Recent Troubles with Private Land Owners (Elsewhere in the UK).


Over here in Wales ; Private Land Owners often tend to do things rather differently indeed (*See eBay Advert Below).


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cardiff-UK-La ... 2203285087


As a Private Freehold Land Owner (Myself) ; I am Highly Supportive of Genuine Pedlars who wish to Hire My Land.


What I Do Not (Really) Like are those Naughty Little Folk who are Brazenly Trying to (Cheekily) Freeload ; at other People's Expense.


So (Please) always try to be Exceedingly Polite to Private Land Owners ; as Most of them would Gladly Accept a £10 (Flat-Rate) Honorarium , for up to 5 Hours Worth of Pedlary , on their Precious Freehold Land.


Good Luck !
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